Foul Play
Recently I had an email exchange with a fellow solo player, mainly about different rules that we use, it was surprising just how similar our own particular methods were but we were in total disagreement about fouls on the field of play. He insisted that a foul was only committed if an attacker struck an opponent and then went on to hit the ball, and if it struck an opponent without striking the ball, all that happened was a change of possession. From my point of view that’s not my interpretation or never has been. So I asked the obvious question how he had come this assumption of foul play? “Because it’s in the rules” was his reply.
The 80’s Rules
Known as the “Green Sheet Rules” I managed to obtain a set in PDF format and had a quick read and there in black and white under the section on Fouls is:
An attacking figure hits a defending figure before touching the ball.
Now this method raises a few questions for me when did it change (which I’ll address later), and what’s stopping a team in possession who has little chance of hitting the ball taking a well placed opponent out without consequence?
The goalkeeper changes for cup ties in my League Pyramid to give the higher ranked team a slight advantage
So when did things change?
Some people may argue that it’s never changed, because I’ve encountered the same kind of narrative in the past. At that time however I put it down to interpretation of the old rules.
The 1950 rule book states:
Now that says to me exactly what it says on the tin, strike an opponent first, irrespective of what happens after is a foul.
The 1967 rule book states:
The 1969 rule book states:
This I must admit could be interpreted slightly different, especially with the word BEFORE in bold capitals. But as there’s no further explanation, I would think it’s safe to assume that the wording may have changed but the rule hasn’t. It’s just another way of saying that striking an opponent whether or not you hit the ball afterwards is a foul.
The 1975 rule book states:
A foul is awarded when a figure hits an opponents figure WITHOUT first touching the ball.
So we’re back to the wording in the 50’s rules, which to be fair is probably the best wording in the rules we have come across so far and probably needs no explanation. Now that is in the Elementary Section, as we move down to the Advanced section we read:
It is a foul if the attacking figure hits the defending figure before touching the ball.
Now why it’s worded differently in the elementary and advanced sections I have no idea, but to be honest it’s worded exactly (well almost), the same way in 1969 so one assumes that the rule hasn’t changed, and again there’s nothing suggesting of what happens if an opponent is struck first and no contact with the ball follows. So again my interpretation of the rule remains the same.
We have a winner
So it looks like the rule changed sometime in the 80’s, why I have no idea, Maybe the manufacturers at that time interpreted things wrong and made an attempt to clarify their interpretation, or just decided this was how the game should be played.
I’d be interested to know how readers interpret the rule in their own games so feel free to post a comment.
I for one in solo play take things a little further, If a blocking flick strikes an opponent or the ball that in my book is a foul and is punished, it’s then up to the attacker to take a free kick, play a back, or simply play on whichever is to the attackers advantage. So as long as defenders are careful they give nothing away now to me that makes sense in my world.
Whilst we’re on the subject of rules
Reading the 1950 rule book for this blog, (Which was kindly loaned to me), one rule I’ve never come across before regards the use of a spare goalkeeper or one which has been removed from it’s control rod which is as follows:
When an attacking side bring the ball down into their opponents penalty area, the defending goalkeeper may be given the chance to clear by being flicked against the ball, irrespective of whether it is the defending sides turn to play or not. The ball after having been kicked by the goalkeeper, is immediately in the possession of the attacking side, even if it should have been deflected on to a defending figure. The goalkeeper can be replaced on the wire immediately in cases where the ball is hit, but when it is missed the ruling is the same as stated under goalkeeping.
Now reading this to me conjures up visions that every time the attack get the ball into the penalty area the keeper is allowed to kick the ball away and then given time to be put back on it’s control rod, but the attack keep possession, I’m intrigued at this point as the rules are vague at best and probably pose more questions than they answer. Can you do this continually and turn the game into Subbuteo Tennis. Or maybe keep shots on goal from further out to stop our over zealous keeper putting the boot in, who needs defenders when we have such dynamism in between the sticks. What the hell happens at corners do we have to let our Super Custodian kick the ball away as soon as the ball is put into the penalty area. At this rate the feeling is leave him off the wire permanently and pop him back on if he needs to be, and save the bother of constantly trying to insert a rod in the poor guys rear end.
That rule was dropped by 1953 so presumably it must have either caused total chaos or proved to be a little too effective.
New rules for the Bonfire Alliance
I’ve been pondering over recent times how to conduct cup ties that involve teams from different tiers in my league structure, that give a slight advantage to the higher ranked team. I don’t play any form of home advantage in my league and didn’t want to change my rules for cup ties, because I know at some point I’d forget the rule change and make the whole process null and void. So I’ve implemented a way of allowing the higher ranked team to have an advantage by the use of different goalkeepers.
In all league games the goalkeepers used are the BBB variety, I purchased a set last year mainly to review them, and as I posses a set I decided to use them this season the 2 keepers in diving pose are used in all league games as they provide the greatest coverage. My plan if you can call it that, is if a team from a tier below is playing a higher ranked team the lower ranked will change it’s keeper to the upright BBB, if 2 tiers below the keeper will be substituted for a normal Subbuteo diving keeper mounted on a weighted base.
I originally started using the BBB keepers to try and cut the goal tally and it did have a bearing on this compared to my previous season which used the Subbuteo diving keepers so the above method hopefully will create a situation where the higher ranked team has a slight advantage, as it should be in a cup tie, but a giant killing can still happen with a little luck.
I think that's enough for now, feel free to comment on this post, I’d love to read your interpretation of foul play in the solo game or anything else raised in this post.
Keep On Flicking
Ian
Great post Ian. I too am in my 40's but must have missed that rule in the green sheets and I have always played that if as the attacker you hit an opposition player either on your way to hitting the ball or if not hitting the ball at all it is a foul. The opposition can choose to take the free kick or play advantage.
ReplyDeleteSame if a defensive flick during open play hits an opposition player it's a foul. The attacking team can play advantage or have the free kick.
Like your idea of keepers to give advantage. I personally use Logacta concept but adapted to be used with games I play to decide if there will be any advantage gained by the higher ranked team and how much.
Hi Phil, I must admit until I read the green sheet rules I just thought that it was a case of misinterpretation, but there it was in black and white, why is anyone's guess.
DeleteNow Logacta is a blast from the past, I never owned a set but a couple of my friends had it in our youth, so I understand the concept of the game, but I'm intrigued how you employ that concept into Subbuteo.
Ian
Ian I have replied to you by email in more detail but here is what an I Italian member in the group on Facebook I run posted from the Italian rules he has used since child hood
DeleteActually, I checked the rules introduced in 1978 by the Italian Federation FICMS, and there you can find confirmation (I remember that we used these rules as kids). Of course you might try Google Translate to get a translation in English. REGOLA 5 • FALLI DI GIOCO
a) It's a "foul" when a miniature of the ball-possession team hits an opponent's figure before touching the ball. If a miniature hits an opponent player and doesn't hit the ball, he doesn't commit a foul ;(... )"
So another example it was it rule sets. He also said they play 'back's if the defender hits an attacker when taking a defensive flick. I it says to play backs in the advanced 68 rules but I prefer it just to be a foul or advantage so it is like real football.
I played in a Club during the 70's. The rules we used were very similar to the Subbuteo rules of the mid 70's which were I think they were ETF / ETSA variant which pre-dated the Subbuteo variant by a fair few years, and we played the rule as described in the post, when defending all misdemeanours were backs. A house rule we had which wasn't played in Local Tournaments was a defending misdemeanour in the penalty area was a penalty.
DeleteSo there's another explanation of the wording in the 80's green sheet rules as the FICMS pre-date the green sheet rules. the plot thickens.
In connection with the 50s rule you found about the keeper being able to clear the ball whenever it is in the penalty box. I never knew that but in my aim to add things that appear in real football I do have my own rule similar to this but with restrictions.
ReplyDeleteIf the attacking team kick the ball into the opposition penalty box but have no players beyond the shooting line then the defending team have the option to try and clear the ball with the spare flicking keeper.
He must be flicked from the 6 yard box and unless the ball hits one of the his own players or goes out of play then my spare keeper loss of possession rule comes in.
Spare keeper loss of possession = if spare keeper losses possession except from a goal kick then he must remain where ever he is on the pitch.
To be replaced with the saving keeper you must flick him back to the 6 yard box/goal, once in the 6 yard box the attacking team is allowed one more flick and then the saving keeper can be placed back in the goal.
These flicks to get the spare keeper back are taken after every attacking flick but any defensive flicks normally allowed are forfeited if you choose to flick the spare keeper instead.
During this scenario the attacking team can if they wish shoot from anywhere over or on the half way line.
If at anytime during this situation the attack lose possession you can then simply remove the spare keeper from thr field and replace with your saving keeper if needed.
This for me creates those sweeper keeper moments and recreates the attack having a poor touch and the keeper now having to make a decision to either stay or come out but not without risks.
If he misses the ball, it doesn't hit a defender or doesn't go out of play now it creates those moments like in real football where the keeper is scrambling to get back after a mistake.
Allowing the attack to shoot from anywhere during in this scenario recreates those moments where the keeper is off his line and teams go for the long range shot e.g. Beckham against Wimbledon etc.
Plus rather than the 70's rule of simply the attacking team is allowed 3 flicks with the same player until the spare keeper can simply be picked up and taken off. This rule means you have to use your actual flicking skills to get him back.
I use this in two player games too with my son and my friend it has made for some great moments including the spare keeper actual saving it and deflecting the ball over the crossbar.
Thanks for that, there's a lot of thought gone into the keeping rules, and I can see it working in a 2 player game.
Deletelike all games that are adapted for solo play, there can be so much more attention to detail. The game becomes the hobby, and we can emerse ourselves into it.
With regard to the 1950 rules, I'll put them on the downloads page, If nothing else they give you an insight to how it all began.
Ian
Thanks Ian look forward to looking at them. I do like looking through all the Subbuteo released rule books and leaflets but don't have that one. Have you ever seen a copy of the dream team era rules? Wasn't a great game from all accounts however in the Advanced rules bit they did try to add a bit of individualisation to certain positions so not every player was the same which is interesting concept. Happy to share these with you if you don't have them. I have tried out having 'star' player or players (max 3 for stronger teams) on my team to give that bit of individualisation so not every little plastic figure is the same. So if AC Milan from the 90's Van Basten, Rijkaard and Maldini are the star players and it means they can flick the ball 4 times instead of the usual 3.
DeleteNo I'm not conversant with the rules but I've seen the Dream Team Variant, and had the opportunity to play with the equipment, my impression was lets say underwhelming, A cheap uninspiring copy of the flats which were basically unplayable as a serious game, aimed at a younger generation. One thing in it's defence it had the potential to bring players into a more sophisticated version.
DeleteAllowing "Star" players to be able to take extra touches could work in solo games and open a few possibilities though.
Great to hear from you Ian and a nice article as well. I may have to copy your idea of the small GKs for my solo league. Thanks for the tip!
ReplyDeleteYou're very welcome, I just wanted to introduce a small advantage to the higher ranked team in cup ties, Nothing stopping you using the idea any way you see fit. Glad you liked the article
DeleteIan
Good stuff. I use the obsolete "keeper gets a flick when ball enters pen area" rule to distinguish "better" teams from rank and file. So if liverpool are playing bury in the cup the pool keeper gets the flick advantage. Makes for action packed games (esp when the keeper comes flying out, misses and the ball is slot into empty nets). Many giant killing stories have occured within my cup ties!
ReplyDelete